My 6000 Gallon Log Pond Build

As promised, here is the start of my Log Pond build...

I have attached a few pics of the plans for the construction. Slight deviation in my original plans of an oblong, but I think this will look much more effective.

Why the change? Well on octogan is a much stronger structure with the pressure being evenly distributed across 8 sides. This also means I wont need to use side wall supports.

The timber is going to be machined by a company in Scandanavia, who build Log houses. So the quality and craftsmanship is second to none!

I will get some photos up of the site where it is going - starting to get excited now.

A different type of build thats for sure, Will You have to ply line the inside ? in order to give a smooth finish so Your choice of water proofing has a flat surface. Also will aid in support and should keep bowing to a minimum.
What about Skimmers and returns, I would say You will need 2 skimmers, to keep the surface free from debris. So what about filters any more thoughts? How many drains personaly I would go with 2, one airated and the other standard.
Keep us up to speed and as Pete has mentioned if I can advise in any way please ask.
Justin

No, i'm not planning on ply lining. The wood is machined and manufactured to exacting standards, for building houses. I will be using a heavy duty underlay, for insulation. No additional structural support will be required due to the shape, and the nature of the forces applied. If we were to go longer, then support may have been req'd.

I have two bottom drains, and was thinking of using just one skimmer. (one question about plumbing - is it 4" pipework for gravity fed? and can I have both drains and skimmer all fed into the single filter input?)

In terms of filtration, my initial plan is to make use of what I have currently, allowing for future expansion. I have a large vortex, which I was thinking of lining with brushes to remove the large debris. I then have a 1000l chamber filter, which chamber 1 I was thinking of jap matting, chamber 2 possibly alfagrog or crystal bio, chamber 3 possibly fluidised K1. Chamber 4 will contain a pump feed a fluid bed filter, and an outlet for the return pump. This will go via a 110w UV filter, and an Elecro heater. (second question, what size heater is recommended - just wanting to keep temps enough to keep the koi active through winter)

I can then expand to include a nexus and/or econobead filter.

I would then like to return to the pond via a stainless steel cascade, although unsure how I can integrate this at the moment.

Any feedback welcome...?

Now this looks interesting!!

I sell a similar...but much smaller version..called intalog ponds.Their self locking feature is excellent.

I look forward to the pics.

Where did you get the idea?

I didnt really get the idea as such, it is just a case of idea's evolving. The initial plan was to do a block built structure, then we moved to attempting railway sleepers (since I love the wood effect) - then I had a brain storm - and contacted a manufacturer I had been intouch with about log homes, and voila.

If my plans pull together and this is successful, I may consider turning this into a small business, as it is quite cost effective.

4in For the pipework.

I would have the bottom drain and skimmer seperate with differant filtration.

How many gallons are you planning on.Sorry brain gone to work out myself...been a long day!

6000 gallon (see the title )

Could run a bead filter off the skimmer? but would need further mechanical in front wouldnt i?

Here is a picture of how the wood looks/fits together

Sorry missed the gallonage...doh!

Exactly the same principle as my Intalog ponds and a great idea.

All above ground I presume.Tricky to catch them?

I'm thinking of sinking it about 1ft into the ground, and decking around it

Hmmm so how are You going to water proof it? I am sure the timber is cut to perfection but I am sure You are well aware timber will mover and twist along with the seasons. So for Me the ply linning would aid in a nice flat base to water proof against.
Two bottom drains should go each in turn to there own filter, if You split the drains across one filter You are then splitting the pull on each drain. How much water will Your filter allow You to pull through it? What size pumps are You looking at running, by the sound of it You are thinking of running two drains and a skimmer all into the same filter with only one pump. Not good at all and will lead to problems of debris on the bottom of the pond and also no where near enough water turnover. You should try for atleast once an hour 100% turnover.You should run 3 pumps this will also give You 3 returns aiding in water movement.
Why not convert Your vortex to an easy type filter and have static K1 in there, I am sure after a few weeks You will get sick of smelly hands from cleaning koi pooh from brushes. If You make an easy to fit in there let the K1 and a bit of air do the hard work for You.
AS for Your filter I would go with two bays of fluidized K1, then on to Jap Matting and return back to pond. Via Your Uv and heater. You will need an 8 KW heater to heat that amount of water, If You go smaller You will struggle to achieve any heat and Your heater will be on 24/7 trying its hardest to get there.
Personally I would give flocor and alphagrog the widest of berths possible, take it from some one who takes many an old pond apart these medias just harbour pooh and bacteria, had some real stinky situations in My time.

So if You are digging down a foot what treatment will the timber need to keep it from rotting beneath ground? I am sure it comes treated but by the look of the pick its only a soft pine so will perish over a few years with our wet and cold winters. Are YOu going to excavate lay drains and a concrete base?
I hope I dont come across on a downer, but I have turned up at so many train crashes and just felt for the people when they have spent out their hard earned money, only to then have to through more money at a bad situation in order to save it. The old saying in Koi rings so true. Do it once do it right
Justin

sorry mate one last thing, what thickness is the timer looks about 75mm from pic, I know its only over just over 2m lengths but remember 6000gallons is over 27 tons of water to hold back it will without doubt have a bow issue even if its only very slight.Just more things to factor into Your build
Justin

hi all sorry not been round much mega busy

anth dont want to put a downer on your idea but as justin said thats a lot of water and preesure them timber joints have to hold back, i would try and add as much support as you can.last thing you want is problems from the start as you will feel like jacking it all in like i did when i was sold 2 faulty liners



Dermot

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have been assured by the engineers that this structure will easily support the 6000g - they used to build hot from this.

The wood is getting treated with Butinox, it is a high grade, high penetrating varnish for the wood, designed for exterior use, with a 5year guarantee. The part going under ground, I will be covering with a waterproof membrane, and possibly apply something like bitumen (not sure yet).

I think you misunderstood me on the filtration... what I wanted to know was whether I could join the skimmer to one of the drains, the other drain I was looking at putting a bead filter on.

Curiously, you say to put the jap matting after the K1 media? I thought u'd want the jap matting first for mechanical filtration? Also in terms of the bead filter - i could use the vortex in front of this for mechanical filtration, and no vortex infront of the chamber filter? Or should I buy a 2nd vortex?

Also how would i go about cleaning the static k1 in the vortex if i use this?

Also, have you had any experience of the crystal bio? Or would you defo say the k1 in 2 chambers will be best?

Also there may be a slight change in the plans... but i will let you know if this does end up coming to light... (I have a fluid imagination )

HI mate, I would always advise to keep drains and skimmers very much separate.
Ok filters, You will need a pre filter in front of any filtration that You use coming from a drain, as You need it to separate the pooh, so I would say with what You have at the moment that is one drain run covered. So that is one drain into vortex where pooh will settle, then onto Your filter box via a 4" pipe. Two fluidized K1 then a third chamber of Jap Mat. The reason Jap Mat should always go behind K1 is K1 sole purpose is to breed good bacteria, so as it dances about in the air flow it is always shedding old dead bacteria, this over time will build up a dust that the Jap Mat will catch and once a year be cleaned off.
If You are have a bead on Your skimmer, You can just pump feed this straight from skimmer, no real need for a sieve in front on a skimmer line as You are mainly putting clean water through it. A pump with a basket is a must though. I would say an Econobead will do the job just perfect. AS with all beads though You need a pump with a bit of grunt as they work best under pressure.
The idea of K1 in a vortex works on the same principle as the center easy of a nexus. Leave it static whilst water is passing through it, this will then catch and solids from the drain. Then as You clean it you put some air in there to agitate media, then dump all water in chamber along with all the Koi pooh."simples"
I would still question a length of 75mm thick timber holding back 27 tons, timber moves on its own let alone under pressure, I am sure it will hold back the water but just cant see that it wont bow. I am sure Dermot will add more as this is more His area of expertise being a master chippy. I would say that You would 100% have to ply line it.
You havnt told us how You will water proof this yet, whats the plan.
Good luck
Justin

Thanks for the advice. I am planning on using a butyl liner (as this will compensate for any possible movement).

anth have the engineers worked all this out and said it will hold all the pressure? could you sink it more in the ground?
the timber in the pic looks much the same as 4*2 cls what we use to build stud walls etc,if it was me i would look at some sort of metal strap in the corners and as justin says 18mm ply the in side as well.

anth please dont think we are mocking your design just want it right for you from the start

justin since when have you became posh koi pooh


Dermot

Dont worry about it - I appreciate your concern.

I came across a similar product, which seems to be very popular, this should give you an idea - http://poolstore.co.uk/category/above-ground-pools

I went to see one, just to sanity check my idea, and it looks really effective.

I appreciate that there is going to be approx 27ton of water, but in terms of pressure, this will not be a great deal. The total resultant force will be equally spread oover 8 sides, with a maximum pressure of 1.73psi (which will be back filled, and underground. The maximum pressure at the unsupported area will be 1.3psi. Bearing in mind that a man of average build and height exerts 8psi under his foot...

well looks like you got it sorted anth keep us all upto date with your build and remember the pics as you go.



Dermot

Anthony

This is getting very interesting.justin is going through all the pros and cons of all the differant ways.Hell I wish I had found a forum before I built mine.So many questions...and all answers are good sound ones from all.Justin is a sound member to listen to.He has built some amazing ponds..and his speed...lightening man.

Thanks enjoying this one.

Slight change in plans (not so much a change but more of an addition. I have decided to order two of these, but one will be a bit smaller, at 14' diameter. This will make it 3800 gallon.

The main reason for this is I am considering having the larger as a swimming pool (but more than likely two ponds).

With respect to the smaller one, I am wokring out what is going to be my best option for the filtration design? I ultimately want something that is neat and compact... Suggestions welcome.

go with either sieve and bead, that will give You perfect clear water, for Me though I do love to see a koi thrive rather than survive so would go with pod over shower from both drain and skimmer. Now You are only going for a smaller volume of water sometimes in My opion You can get much better results in a better performing 4000 gallon pond rather than an ok 6000,7000,ect ect.
Smaller volume of water means You can move more about. I now I have built some huge lovely ponds but unfortunately due to a smallish garden I only have 3500 gallons Myself, that I turn over just over twice an hour. I am very pleased with My results and have many Koi at 70cm and would hope in the next couple of years to have a few pushing the 80cm mark.
So it is all about how things are set up rather than how much water You have.
If I would give You any advise it would be to stick with one pond and if You go with two keep the other for swimming in. Then You can turn all Your energy and money at just one to get it spot on. Otherwise I fear a further lay out of money in the future as You fall further into the hobby.
Justin

The bigger one is going to be a swimming pool... just may be tempted to put koi in in the future. At the minute I want to conentrate on the filtration for the smaller one, and get than running excellently. I was thinking of getting an econobead for the swimming pool, since it will do a better job than any swimming pool filter, and can be put to better use in the future.

Just to try and confirm your recommendations - you recommend running two eazy pods, one off a drain, one off a skimmer? Or am I better off not having a skimmer, and just drains?